A TCL First? '67 Rolls Royce project thread... by ValveCoverGasket

By stevegolf
( 2 )

Compliments of ValveCoverGasket @ fourtitude.com


10-26-2010

dont recall seeing one of these on here before... a rolls royce project thread!

a buddy and i picked this up locally from a fellow who saved it from the original owner's cousin's barn. car is from england, moved over to chicago sometime in the 70s from what we can tell (bumpers and mirrors were updated to then-current model parts). lived in portland for a majority of its life until it sat in a garage/storage for 15 years or so. then was moved over to idaho to the cousin's barn after the original owner passed away... has just 66k kms on it, and it shows 

anyway, runs fine but doesnt move. so the trans is coming out for a rebuild. since its a RHD 67 its one of the last years they used the rolls royce 4spd auto (LHD 67s already had the GM turbo 400 trans)... so were dealing with a pretty rare tranny (~3000-4000 built from what i can tell)... still working on tracking down a local shop to go through it. luckily it shares lots of parts with late 40s and 50s GM hydramatics (the jetaway i beleive...) so were on the hunt for an antique GM trans guy.


anyhow, onto the pictures!




 

 
















ill come back with some more pictures in a while once weve got the trans back in and all that... could be a bit as were balancing this with a few other projects, but everyone is excited to see it on the road. its amazing how many non-car people get excited about cars when you mention a rolls royce 

plan is to get the trans back in, refinish the wood (lacquer is peeling in a few of the top bits from the sun, otherwise its all solid), clean up the engine bay a little bit and redo some of the black paint under the hood, then see where were at money/frustration wise and whether or not we want to sell it or store it somewhere.

 




10-07-12 updated photos, finally spending some time out of the shop! 



 










black/white and color version of all the shots from our day out are in the album here... 


some more pics from my roommates film pics that he scanned in 
















really dug the depth of field and colors in his shots


we had considered doing that... and i think the possibility still exists if we run into too much trouble with the 4spd, but the issue would be all of the linkage parts, shift column, gear indicator, etc as we have a RHD car, we'd need all of the later RHD GM400 linkage parts, as well as the column, gear indicator, etc

so it would be a matter of tracking down those parts from the UK... doable certainly, but if we have what we need to make a runner out of the trans its got, i think that would be easier and more original.
if we had a LHD car with the 4spd it would be much easier to get our hands on the appropriate swap parts, but still some leg work tracking down all the little bits and pieces.


aside from the rediculous brake/suspension hydro system (maybe ill post a screen shot of the pressure line routing later tonight ) everything seems pretty straight forward. lots of large bolts, surdy aluminum components, etc
electrically the harnesses (on these early cars anyway) are sort of a joke, its like cloth wrapped copper with real **** connectors. ours has been partially redone though and so far everything appears to work.

were pretty handy with wiring though so repairs shouldnt be a problem, and electrically theyre really no more complicated than your average 90s car with power accessories (has power mirrors, and power front seats, electronic shifter, etc). seems its more a battle against ****ty british wiring/connectors than it being complex


doors all close like a bank vault, the leather is amazing (though the color is slightly worn in some of the inner seams on the drivers seat). the wood work is insane and where it still remains - mostly on the vertical surfaces - the factory lacquer is incredibly rich.  
rear leg room is awesome and this is a short wheel base example, and the seats are really comfortable. though to be honest ive spent more time under the car than in it
carpets are really plush. im really interested to see how quiet it ends up being on the road.


in addition to the front suspension being swapped out there are a number of new looking brake soft lines throughout the car. whoever took out the front leveling suspensionstill left in all of the old hydro valves and lines that used to run to it, so thatll be removed as part of the engine cleanup i think...

ill be sure to bug those guys when it comes time to start replacing other things. ive got an email in to crewe cutters already for some of the misc. stuff were missing under the hood, so well see what he comes back to me with on price/availability.

the trans appears to be a cadillac hydramatic copy... so weve found a local antique gm trans guy who comes highly recommended.

and i think for what we paid for it we can still break even when it comes time to sell


thats what i figured. i noticed fatsco sells all the rebuild soft parts, along side their antique gm stuff, and the trans guy has done a couple of these and seemed well versed in the various versions of GM licensed transmissions that RR used over the years

were currently thinking the internal seals let go from sitting too long. itll go into gear fine but wont move more than a couple inches after some serious reving...
PO was driving the car around a bit on the weekends (he claims to have put ~1000miles on it in the couple years or so that he owned it) then it slowly started to "fail to proceed" one afternoon as rolls would say, and he ended up limping it home.

ive heard the silver clouds are a bear to work on because of the x-frame... coworkers dad used to have one and i guess they did some maintenance to theirs and it was a pain to get to things under the car.

glad to see theres some RR folks on here, im sure ill be coming back asking some questions as we stumble through this


10-27-2010

from what understand about the suspension, the early shadows were sold with leveling all around, then later ones moved to rear only (not sure what year they took away front leveling). there isnt a non leveling rear end that im aware of.

as for the chrome, i think that most of that stuff was either aluminum or some sort of stainless steel. we havent taken any of it off to be sure but it definitely seems solid and really good quality.


12-1-2010

quick update
got word back from the trans guy last night - sounds like the flex plate is out of round, and blew up the front pump in the trans as well as thetorque converter.
hunt is on now for some of these parts, so well see how spendy of an adventure this turns into.

also, got registered on the RROC forums, and working on hunting down some other odds and ends that it needs, and were getting closer to starting up the wood working soon


also have to say ive really been pretty let down by the rolls wrecking yards ive gotten a hold of so far.

no one seems to have the great little odds and ends that i would expect to find even at a german specific yard locally, engine hoses, washer bottles, random trim, etc... i dont know what the point of holding onto a whole car is if you arent willing/able to sell all of the little random bits and pieces off of it.

anyway... hoping that joining the RROC and their forum will allow access to some folks who are actually willing to part out cars, or have random parts laying around for sale.


2-9-2011

quick update, been a couple months since weve done anything on this as weve been trying to track down transmissions... finally sourced a complete unit from what we were told was a running/driving car last week, its at the transmission shop now getting a once over. along the way weve managed to pick up another spare semi-complete 4spd for parts later (bringing our grand total up to 3 4spd RR transmissions... that has to be a record ).

hope to have some progress made within the next month or so after all of the transmissions come back from the shop

then its onto refinishing the wood, cleaning things up under the hood, and likely swapping on some reproduction early bumpers to make it look period correct again, should have it looking something like this after the bumper swap:


no modern v8 swaps...

original 60s shadows are getting hard to find, and swapping over the brake system to something non-rolls is much more trouble than id like to go through. would be a bit more tempting perhaps if the entire brake/suspension system wasnt tied into the engine, but

as for what weve spent so far...
we got the car for around $6000, havent bought anything yet as weve been waiting to hunt down a good trans before going any further. aside from ~$100 for an RROC membership and another $50 or so for factory service manuals and a RR Shadow enthusiasts handbook. i have a laundry list of new/used parts i need to hunt down but were likely targeting bumpers first as the big ticket items early on, and some cleanup parts under the hood. stuff like refinishing the wood and treating the leather, repainting under the hood and whatnot are all free, just time consuming.

no new shots yet, as its just been sitting in about the same state as what the first page showed.
ill take some more new pictures when i go to pick up the transmissions


thanks for the vote of confidence

we went to check it out on a bit of a whim, and wanted something to mix up our usual slew of european econobox projects. i think its succeeded in opening the eyes of everyone involved to an entirely different car community/culture, which i think was partially the goal.
and i think trying to keep this thing as true to original as possible (visually anyway) was always part of the plan.


heres a couple more shots i found... the front seat looks a lot worse in the photo, and the finish on the wood generally seems to look better than in real life






2-10-2011

after '65 in the US, and after '67 everywhere else, they used the GM turbo transmissions... up until sometime in the 80s if memory serves. these were all 3spds, and theyre definitely the one to get.
otherwise they used a RR 4spd licensed from GM, but made by RR, thats the one weve got. it resembles an old GM hydra used in the 50s, but this one is a 4spd. the transmissions are rare, the parts are even more rare, and theyre relatively fragile.

we could have been back on the road for a couple hundred bucks if this were the GM turbo trans


has an electric shift box on it that actually runs the transmission (along with numerous levers and linkage bits for the kickdown, etc) that would need to be replaced with the later style, and as ours is a right hand drive car we would need basically an entire RHD parts car with the later trans... parts would include the column, gear indicator stuff, new electronic shift box, harness for the shift box, linkages on the carbs, transmission, driveshaft, shift box, new flex plate, etc etc

more trouble than its worth without having a RHD parts car... the 4spd trans are out there, theyre just rare


2-23-2011

another quick update, got some good condition early bumpers headed our way, along with some other misc parts ive been working for a while to track down - namely a new intake boot!

we made the executive decision to have the good trans we got in a few weeks ago completely gone through. new cltuches, seals, etc. when we put this thing together we dont want to have to take it apart again for another 50 years


ill post some pictures of the new parts when we start getting stuff in


im running into some confusion with the mirrors that should have been on this car (before it was federalized)... ill have to take a couple pictures of what ive got and post them on RROC, as ive found i think 4 or 5 different variations of mirrors on these cars and im not sure whether they were all available and were picked by the owners as options or whether it was a year to year difference.


im headed out to the shop tonight but ill post pictures of the door mounted square crap that weve got, the holes that are left over on our window trim from the small round mirrors that i presume the car used to have... and then the couple of pictures ive found online of other early shadows and what they appear to have.
lots of confusion

my hope is to try to track down the round door mounted (and adjustable from the interior) ones ive managed to find pictures of online, but havent checked for prices or availability.

im certain that this car shipped with window frame mounted non adjustable mirrors, but someone added these interior adjustable square ones at some point - and whacked holes in the door trim (for the adjusters) and in the doors. so were hoping to use the holes that theyve made to mount the smaller round mirrors...

itll all make more sense with pictures i think


thats what im thinking as well... but now that weve got holes in the wood work and the doors, my thought is to at least attempt to reuse them, if i can get my hands on two of the round door mounted style.

anyway, onto the pictures!

heres us (both sides of the car are the same):



the original holes:



and i didnt take shots but theres a hole through each front door wood piece for the adjustment knob to poke through...

heres a RHD '67 with the fender mounted setup - which seems to follow most of the other RHD '67s ive seen


and finally heres a RHD '76 with a combo of both the window mounted and door mounted round mirrors:



like i said my hope is to find a left and right version of the round door mounted style that are adjustable from inside - as seen on the driver's side of the RHD '76, so that we can reuse the holes in the wood and doors that someone so kindly drilled in our car...
something like this guy:

(currently on ebay, description says euro spec '75)


im going to bug the brainiacs at RROC about this also, but figured this might make an interesting discussion here too
chrome bumpers shipped today... so pictures are on their way soon


2-24-2011

yeah i think so, also getting our hands on non-drilled window frames is easy because thats the most common configuration - since the later more common cars had door mounted mirrors.

and according to the handful of folks whove responded apparently there were 4 different types of mirrors available in the 60s, each being available in either a single on the drivers side or a dual mirror configuration depending on how it was ordered. among those 4 types the door mounted adjustable round mirror was an option.
now to hunt down a pair!


3-15-2011

all kinds of parts sitting at the shop now, including 3 bumpers

so far got the front bumper on loose to make adjustments to the fitment... need to take a couple of pictures as it looks 100% better already and we havent even swapped up the mirrors

after removing the old bumpers i found a couple places that need some touching up underneath but it should look great afterwards


3-22-2011

couple shots of the front (havent had time to fit the rear)

 



keep in mind that its not really mounted but just finger tight... still need to adjust/center/level it


4-25-2011

another month, another update

trans should be a couple weeks out now, most of the way reassembled and just waiting on a couple more odds and ends to get it buttoned up.


4-26-2011

still need to track down an intake hose bracket, intake hose, and the battery cover for the trunk. over the last month or so ive managed to get the proper washer bottle, washer motor, and bottle bracket. also got a whole shifter assembly so i can replace the cracked shifter handle that weve got, and a new rear mirror to replace one of the flaking ones weve got...

next projects before the trans comes back are getting the bumpers all sorted out, hiding some of the wiring in the rear that the chrome rear bumper doesnt have provisions for, and touching up some of the paint up front behind the bumper.

i might have time to wrap up the bumpers this weekend, but i need a few dry days to finish painting the brackets.


5-1-2011

theres a jag replacement that fits and is about 10x cheaper than the identical rolls branded fan clutch. the indy shop was probably smart enough to lead him toward the cheaper part

also... theres an early 90s turbo bentley for sale on RROC right now as well. those are MUCH more expensive to run. the guy on there has also posted his costs (dealer serviced with original bentley parts) and its approaching 6 figures as i recall... just since the late 90s. big money


5-17-2011

bumpers!








theyre not mint but it fits the rest of the car's patina


6-15-2011

just got word back from the trans shop that the rebuilt unit is ready, along with 2 other trans worth of spare parts - that will probably get sold on RROC when the time comes.

hoping to pick everything up friday afternoon and take some shots.

found a guy on RROC who will let me borrow a crank bolt socket so i can get runout on the flexplate, and use it while installing the trans.

if i can find enough time this should be wrapped up sooner rather than later

also poking around the car last weekend reminded me i probably need to order some random tuneup parts for when this hits the road - spark plugs, air filter, new plug wires.


thanks for reading and ill keep updating as we make more progress


6-19-2011

its baaaack!






and we managed to acquire a sizable collection of RHD 4spd stuff








working with alber's to get some tune up parts for its road debut - air filter looks like an old birds nest! hah and waiting on the crank sprocket tool - should be in this week, then the real work starts


6-23-2011

plan at the moment is to get the flexplate runout checked out before we throw the trans back in this saturday... got the special tool from an RROC member for spinning the crank over via the pulley nut on the front, but that appears to be incredibly difficult as the nut is really shallow and hard to access.
im getting a flywheel turner today to try that out instead. incredible how nothing is straightforward on this car

fingers still crossed for some major progress this weekend.


6-27-2011

weekend went much more smoothly than expected!









box full of various tuneup parts/filters from alber's showed up today... hoping to have everything under the car wrapped up tonight or tomorrow.
driveshaft, shift linkage and shift box still left to button up. then installing the tuneup stuff and topping off/checking fluids.

car appears to take ~3 gallons of trans fluid, and ~4 gallons of oil


ill take more pictures when we get it on the ground and start buttoning it up.

having it done it once, i think i could probably pull the trans in one of these again in a couple of days. helped a lot on the install this time having a spare bell housing to use as a roadmap of where all the various bolts went


also, 28 gallon gas tank. thats not going to play nicely with $4/gal gas

at any rate, planning on some videos of it running/driving, and the sure-to-be-embarassing first cruise around the parking lot.
well see if i can find a way to link those when they happen.


stay tuned! exciting things to come this week/weekend


6-30-2011

couple more pictures from the past couple days

tuneup stuff - air filter, oil filter, stove pipes, wipers, spark plugs, etc




shes thirsty! this is what $180 worth of oil looks like





its ready to put back on the ground except for the dip stick tube on the trans. having issues getting that to seal up to the pan - which is making me suspect of how the trans was operated before, because it must have been leaking slowly out of there.
im gonna try tonight to get that to fit tight and seal up, otherwise this will be on hold through the weekend while i try to hunt down another pipe


7-2-2011

it runs!
and stops, and turns, and starts, etc

super ****ty iphone photo... more to come later this weekend


trans shifts pretty good, i need to double/triple check that weve got all the fluid we need in there as it takes (what seems to me anyway) a slightly more than normal amount of throttle to get it start rolling. after sitting overnight tonight ill take it for another quick cruise today (and get some better day time shots).

one of the brake warning lights is now on also, so i think i might have bumped a wire loose at some point because they were both off before. it stops without much drama (though everything happens slowly haha) so i assume both systems are working.


unfortunately the transmission is all mechanical linkages, and the brakes use a very interesting Citroen derived booster system with accumulators and whatnot, and multiple circuits. sadly i dont think we'll get off that easy


thinking now ill likely take it down to the trans shop at some point to get the bands adjusted and to have them swap the dip stick tube, so that he can get a chance to drive it and see what he thinks - maybe its just my lack of familiarity with these old school transmissions, and maybe it needs time to break in the new clutch and band stuff.
at any rate, seems to be working well enough to test drive so far.

onto the pictures from this weekend!

new stove pipes and fitting




semi-presentable engine shot now that its got a stock-looking intake hose. coil should be relocated soon








starting to get late on friday, wanted to take it for a spin









some more minor cleanup things to take care of, then the hood and grill are going back on.



thats it for now


7-5-2011

more parts on order now to finish up the final drips from the motor, and hopefully sort out the registration/insurance paperwork soon so we can take it on some longer drives


just got off the phone with the transmission guy, sounds like he wants to see the car again to double check the band adjustment before we go too wild putting miles on it. so its first long trip from home will be for a quick checkup at the trans shop. will probably be a couple weeks before that happens as the paperwork for it is in oregon at the moment

stay tuned for more parts arrivals and updates


7-12-2011

should be picking up some new exhaust for it this weekend to replace the blown out stuff weve got on there now.

new trans dipstick tube should be here any day, then its off to the trans shop for final adjustments


more pictures to come probably next week


and for the record, with a filter change the engine ended up taking about 2.75 gallons of oil.

although upon draining what was in there i discovered some buildup on the bottom of the pan (pan will be getting dropped and new gaskets put in when i have a minute to do that) so perhaps after the gunk is removed itll take a full 3 gallons


7-18-2011

got some more random parts in this weekend (motor mounts and an oil pan seal set)
as well as relocated the coil to the proper position, picked up a new exhaust from a fellow RROC member across the border, and got in the new spark plug wire set. also sorted out the wiring to the automatic choke solenoid.

ive got an aston martin distributor cap on order that should help the new wires fit up, then the ignition system will be all sorted.

 

 






ill have pictures of the new exhaust and all that jazz later this week.

this weeks project is sorting out insurance and getting it all plated up properly to hit the street. goal is to have it at the trans shop before the end of the week


7-25-2011

had my first failure to proceed this morning

just died out of nowhere on the freeway this morning on the way to the transmission shop. seems like fuel pump(s)... reading RROC it sounds like its not uncommon to have one pump fail and go unnoticed, until the second pump fails and produces an FTP (failure to proceed )

on the up side, i got a chance to take some really nice shots of it yesterday in the sun with the hood and grill installed.


stay tuned, the adventure continues


i havent been there myself but ive seen pictures in the RROC newsletter i think the local chapter had a meet there where they covered some maintenance and whatnot. looked interesting
i really wanted to just haul this thing to someplace thatll troubleshoot the fuel system when it died, but i guess ill grin and bear it.
itching to get back to the shop tonight and dig through whats wrong though, didnt have time today before work when the tow truck dropped it off


7-26-2011

and photos!










and as i mentioned it left me stranded (or as they say in rolls speak - failed to proceed) yesterday. i originally suspected the fuel pump, and after seeing some of the horrific shots on RROC of failed ones i feared the worst. turns out, our dual pump has been replaced with a different more common dual SU setup, and it all looks to be in very good shape.
and the issue looks to be a failed coil, so an aftermarket replacement will be sourced shortly
the lucas one thats on there looks like it might even be the original coil

couple fuel pump shots:






will have more photos later of ignition parts as those arrive


7-27-2011

thanks

perhaps for the time being youd even let the non-original grill slide??
it matches the chrome bumpers much better in my opinion... in any case its low on the list at the mooment...


im still working out a suitable upgrade for the coil, and debating whether to stick with one that requires the ballast resistor, or to go to an internally resisted coil...
ill probably call albers tomorrow and see what they recommend and what an aftermarket replacement for the stock coil would run.
otherwise ill just pick something at random from the mallory catalog and see how that ruffles the feathers on RROC


 this no-run issue has me kind of miffed...


first there was no spark, now there is spark... i think i could have had it going again today but the damn thing wet all the plugs during the troubleshooting - im reminded once again why carbs are a pain in the ass

anyway, the coil seems to check out when cold... but i suspect it got too hot last time and wouldnt fire. and it looks like its been thrown down a flight of concrete stairs, so its probably not a bad time to spend the $30 and get another one.


7-29-2011

expecting a new coil and ballast resistor tonight to finish going through the ignition


and planning on resealing the oil pan and fininshing up the motor mounts this weekend.

more pictures to come


8-1-2011

got a little bit of work done on the coil and ignition stuff over the weekend

was too lazy this weekend to tackle the motor mounts, though those should be relatively hassle free, just kind of a struggle to muscle them in there.
oil pan looks more involved than i originally though so im still doing some research on that one...


anyway, redid the wiring inside the distributor, mounted up the new coil, and figured out why the car died last week you can see the spots on the oil coil where it had started to weld itself to the housing and leak oil.

enjoy





old and new wires for the distributor - couple of the originals were really starting to fray...




and new exhaust stuff (including the fun old-timey vband clamp )





ill have more shots of the actual exhaust work when we get to that - probably be later this month.

new plug wires coming in a couple days, then its off to the trans shop (for real this time haha)






ill see what i can do. we'll be cutting off the lower part of the y-pipe to fit the new section (since there isnt a break at the end of the y-pipe...
if im over at my buddy's while he's doing the exhaust ill see what i can do about getting a video w/ sound....

it sounds like a hotrod already at idle with the blownout stuff. gets a lot better on the highway because i dont think its turning much faster than idle at ~50-60mph.
should be much much quieter all around with the new exhaust


8-15-2011

couple quick updates

car is at the trans shop as of this morning....

(sorry, pic is sideways... )



and it's got some new plug wires on it also







random collection of assorted wires that were on there before...




hoping for some good news soon from the trans shop


9-11-2011

see if theyll trade you! gotta say though black isnt my favorite color on these things...


were still dealing with trans headaches unfortunately. the shop was closed for their summer holiday for a couple weeks but i got ahold of them last friday and we have some things to clear up this coming week.
what i assumed was just a band adjustment may turn out to be another trans pull (at their shop this time though).

time will tell... ill know more next week. got a few maintenance things thatd be easier to do with the trans out anyway, so maybe ill make them do those if theyre pulling it out. ill update the thread when i know.
we were really hoping to make it to a local RROC meet next weekend, but it looks like it wont happen. might go anyway any take pictures depending on whether theres time between other projects


in the mean time ive been keeping busy with some 4wd british aluminum v8 action


9-15-2011

got a message from the trans shop today...
finally made it to the front of the line to get the rolls on the hoist tonight. should know more hopefully next week once the trans is out.

im going to show up there monday with a bag full of engine and trans mounts that i think theyll be doing when they reinstall all this stuff


9-21-2011

another quick update

theyve got the trans out of the car (much quicker than we did, imagine that ) and have found what appears to be a missing alignment washer on the pump in question. repair is going to be on their dime, and the rest of the important bits will be checked while the trans is out.


no word yet on when the car will be back but im certain to receive a fully functioning adjusted transmission

...i just have to haul a few of the boxes of parts back down to them tomorrow morning so they can have what they need to finish it up again.


ill have more updates as i hear anything


9-28-2011

another quick update from the trans guys:

trans is back in the car, everything is functioning as it should and they took it for a few drives to adjust things. he needs to spend a day or so adjusting throttle linkages, lowering the idle speed, and adjusting trans pressure to smooth out the shifts and get everything dialed.

i think were getting pretty close to being on the road again


will post pics/updates as i hear more from shop


11-2-2011

called the trans shop to check in this morning.

after my last update i ended up stopping by in early october and there was some carb related tuning to be done to lower the idle speed, and adjust many of the linkages. i also told them not to rush as we werent in a huge hurry to drive the car in the winter.

at any rate, its sounding like theyve been able to drive it quite a bit over the last few weeks and do all of the needed adjustments. i guess its only a test drive or two away from being all set.


ill post more updates when i hear back from them again


11-7-2011

car survived the ~30minute drive from the trans shop this afternoon

idle is super smooth and low, and the trans shifts and takes off great now. two big thumbs up to skagit transmission 

tires were a bit low so it hunted a bit on the freeway, but it cruises at 60mph like no ones business!


next up is going to be the exhaust but that wont happen until thanksgiving weekend most likely. and then the oil pan and oil seal work underneath as well shortly after.
it also occured to me (on the cold rainy drive back) that it might not hurt to quickly slap some working blower motors in there as well... so i might do that in the coming months also. heat comes out of the vents when under way with the air forced in there... but the blowers have some bad bearings so its probably time to replace those.


ill keep this updated with pictures as we keep going and tearing stuff apart - nothing much to take pictures of now since it looks the same as it did last time


11-8-2011

there was a knob that looks somewhat like the heater push/pull knobs under the vents, that was located just above my right foot... near the parking brake. moving it around while the car was in motion seemed to direct air blowing either ahead of my feet or toward my shins... but i guess it could always just be blowing outside air and not heated stuff. i assumed it would have been heated if the blower motor worked, but it sounds like thats not the case hah


11-16-2011

ordered a bunch of brake parts this morning...

looks like we're well overdue (go figure) for a replacement of all of the soft lines, and a bleeding.

i went through the troubleshooting steps for the brake system and we have everything associated with the rear accumulator working/bleeding properly, including the calipers from what it looks like.
the front accumulator doesnt build pressure but it looks to be due to no (or very very little) output from the front pump. i cracked the feed line to the front pump last night and saw very little flow there as well so my first hunch is a hose issue - as i checked the filters earlier this summer.
so hopefully we can see some life out of the front accumulator and pump system after a hose swap and a fluid drain/bleeding!
ill also take this time to delete the rest of the front leveling suspension bits as there are some remaining hardlines and valves still lingering even though the car has been updated to the later style suspension.

hoping for more picture updates in a couple weeks


youre right. i remembering looking in there at some guys doing full on transmission rebuilds in their shops in the cloud forum, whereas it seems some of the shadow folks will balk at anything beyond fluid changes.
i dont really know what it would be either... but it is an interesting difference.

i have to say though there are a few guys in the shadow forum keeping the DIY flame burning, and theyve been really useful resources. its possible also that much of the useful conversation happens "behind closed doors" via PM rather than on the shadow forum, as there are a couple of rather grumpy older members on there who appear to not look too kindly on the newer folks...


11-21-2011

going through quite a headache replacing the pan gasket but therell be plenty of good pictures coming in a few days as a result.

also looks like the gasket on the front cover is leaking a bit, along with a likely dribble out of the bottom of the front main. im looking into having that done elsewhere, as i dont really like dealing with that castle nut on the front crank. have some feelers out for quotes on that, but we'll see what they come back with.
going to clean the flametrap and breather as well just to be sure its not crankcase pressure, but judging by the condition of the old oil pan seal, its probably just from old age...

i might get ambitious enough to do it myself if the labor price is totally nuts... with the radiator out it may not be terribly difficult, but it seems things on this car have a way of making themselves tricky.


hopefully we can wrestle the oil pan out of the car tonight (its currently off, but stuck between various subframe and suspension bits).
if i cant get it out ill clean it and reseal where it sits


anyway, photos to come in a day or two of whats been going on so far.


12-16-2011

speaking of which....
heres a fun one i found last night...



12-18-2011

some more shots to tide you guys over... im doing my best to make a mundane soft line swap as interesting as possible

and thought id take a shot of this... to show everyone what sort of mess were trying to sort through here. an overview of the whole hydraulic system




fluid in the tank was clean, as i had seen before, but there was gunk on the bottom of the tank... and it looks like the filters were collapsed - common problem - which i hadnt noticed before. no problem though, weve got new ones.




shot of the old filters...




and all done




the biggest bunch of soft lines at the rear end... just for fun.




and a couple up front... going from the rat trap to the two front calipers - right before the system Ts off into the left and right corners (the blue and purple circuits, in that overview above)




and heres a shot of some of the old stuff getting thrown out.




ive still got a few more lines to replace, but theyre hooked to seized up hard lines in the rear. im gonna check tomorrow if i can have those made locally... if so, ill just break them and get them out so i can take them in to use as templates, and itll be almost wrapped up.
i got my bag of ball bearings in the mail friday, but havent had a chance to install them to block off the front suspension, and i didnt have a chance to rip out the rest of the front suspension stuff since i had to work saturday, but thats the next job when i get back out to the shop.

i think the end is in sight now, especially if i can have new hardlines made up to replace the couple of rusty/seized ones, thatll really make my day

AND, i have a big shiny surprise that should be here in a week or so that we got on ebay this morning.... so stay tuned... ill be really excited to bolt that on once it gets in.


12-30-2011

our grill isnt "right". its in great shape, but isnt proper...

see if you can spot the difference




12-30-2011

im beginning to think it may not be right for any bumper, after comparing a few shadow 1 and shadow 2 grills ive seen in person now... its possible that whoever did the swap to the rubber bumpers decided they wanted to mix things up on the grill too and had it cut down


anyway, itll look great hanging on a wall as the incorrect proportions will be tough to spot when its not on a car


1-3-2012

...actually i can tell you almost to the cent

but first, for a really well sorted "collectible" car the prices seem to be around $25-30k. thatd be something that just about has receipts since new, and maybe only a couple owners, or maybe some sort of celebrity ownership early on. which if you think about what youre getting really doesnt seem too bad, especially compared to similar vintage mercedes and things. prices for convertibles and 2dr cars are significantly higher.

the next level down seems to be where the prices go haywire as the spread between different examples is huge - i did some digging a little while back through the RROC classifieds and during the height of the market crash a few years ago reasonably clean, mechanically sound cars were going from $8-15k, which was quite a large spread. since then it seems the prices have gone up a few thousand. but these would be cars you could hop in and drive but were showing some cosmetic wear, or basically werent show worthy or collectible, and may not have had receipts for everything.

also, the shadow 2 - that has the rubber bumpers that this car wore at the start of the thread - are a lot more common, a lot more complex, and are generally a lot cheaper (from what ive seen). im also not as big of a fan of the looks...
ive had a hard time finding many other late 60s shadows to compare pricing to - they only made ~4000 or so before 1970 - but it seems a good sorted car with clean interior and good mechanicals and receipts should go for mid to high teens, but who knows. also the RHD examples are worth less than LHD ones in theory, but based on the completed ebay listings and the the RROC posts i havent really seen that much difference in the real world, but i havent been looking that long and as i said there arent that many "sold" examples to compare to.

having said all that, were into about the mid teens at this point. keeping in mind this is split between two people, and is money spent over the course of a year or so, isnt really that bad in my opinion... my hope at the end of all this is that we'll come near the price of a good runner, we will have sorted all the interior wear, and we will know that the mechanicals (especially the brakes and trans) are ready to go for another 30 years. we also bought a lot of things we didnt technically need to - like the bumpers, the new grill, etc - that drove the budget up a bit and didnt really add to the reliability or mechanical soundness of the car, but i wouldnt have felt as good driving without them
we also spent about $2000 more than expected on the transmission work, but these things happen... so without the extra money spent on chrome, and the extra spent on trans work, we could have been sitting around $10k all in. but going into this project i had said all along that i dont mind not making money on it, as it really has to be a labor of love given how much time most of the repairs take.


so, the inevitable question - would you do it again? - i would say yes, without hesitation. but, if i were spending a year hunting for the "right" car id make it a '68 or '69 (RHD or LHD, doesnt really matter, i actually think the RHD sort of adds to the unique feel of driving the car) so that i could get the picnic tables, the chrome bumpers, no emissions equipment, the simple old style dash with no center console, but have the more common 3spd transmission. i also probably wouldnt mind buying a car with shot brakes versus this one with a shot transmission, as you might be able to complete more of a test drive on a car with shot brakes. but, at the end of the day, im happy with our car, its low mileage, its hilariously 60s color scheme, its lack of any appreciable rust, and the fact that it is an early car with all of the attributes i mentioned above aside from the 3spd transmission.


1-15-2012

all the brake hardline tools are in, the new grill is in, and i have all the last little bits and pieces to finish off the brake work... but im out of town for the next week, and didnt really have time to get to the shop before i left early last week

so... soon!


therell definitely be lots of photos posted in a couple weeks when ive had a chance to get back to it and actually put some time in.
its hogging my lift and i need to get some new suspension under the land rover, so i need the lift back



1-31-2012

so we decided to push the rolls off the lift for a week or so while we put a new motor in my roommates mk1 jetta, and i get a chance to finally lift the land rover...


in the meantime i thought id update the thread with the rough parts price breakdown someone requested earlier.


heres some approximate numbers on the big stuff weve got so far (keeping in mind that these totals are split between two people, over about a year or so.. making it a bit easier on the wallet...):

$5000 - trans rebuild + trans parts + two spare transmissions + carb adjustment/tuneup and adjustment of trans linkages/clutches at trans shop after final install
$1900 - two chrome bumpers and associated brackets, plus one extra rear bumper (minus overriders)
$1000 - used grill and flying lady, this was a smoking deal compared to others i saw while shopping around, and a bit of an unplanned ebay purchase due to the low price...
$160 - intake hose brackets and new knockoff hose
$250 - fluids for first startup (lots of fluids! )
$800 - used exhaust + used/new hangers + seals + buddy's time to do the welding/fitment
$350 - new genuine plug wires
$100 - new coil, misc ignition parts
$200 - misc gaskets, motor mounts
$1700 - brake parts so far  


that isnt counting the money spent on some of the brake tools and various other odds and ends... all in all, an expensive project, to be sure... but a learning experience and definitely interesting so far.

and for those of you playing the home game, significant $$ could have been saved buying a '67 with the proper '67 brightwork on it... or buying a couple year newer car with a cheaper to find/fix 3spd transmission, but at this point were saving a relatively low mile car that appears to be in pretty decent shape.

heres to hoping it treats us as well as weve been treating it so far 


dont really have any of the RR at the moment...

heres a link to a few old disco ones to tide you over 



http://www.flickr.com/photos/valveco...7627679472205/ 



we'll see if this thing being roadworthy lines up with any of the local shows... itd be fun to get it out there so some of you local guys can see it in person


3-8-2012

i havent forgotten about this project!

should be back to work on this thing within the next week or so... life, work trips, and other car projects have distracted me lately but i hope to have the other cars squared away by the end of this weekend and get back to finishing up the last few bits of rear brakes that need doing on this.. and getting the new grill mounted and sorted out.

stay tuned


3-20-2012

time for a picture dump!


start with the more boring stuff...

shot of one of the old brake hoses i cut in half. you can see it was starting to collapse, which i guess is the typical failure mode for these




and i finally tracked down one of these bastard early car exhaust hangers, in great shape no less... dont ask what it cost

 
 

the ladies... pretty sure the one on the left is a repop.




the lady in the new grill was stuck in there thanks to a stripped allen... that took two additional people and a drill press to take care of. doh!
the offending hole:



the base collection.. our original was in perfect shape, so we used that (on the left)



and out




time for the good stuff, refinishing and getting the polish on it!

heres a terrible shot of how it started out of the UPS box
 

the sheet metal bits had some surface rust so i knocked that down, primered and satin blacked it






the bottom bit looked like it originally had some clearcoat overspray on it so we had to knock that down with a scotchbrite pad. this lower bar is completely hidden by the bumper anyway, but just for completeness sake! (i didnt take pics but the sides and all the slats got polished as well)


 





almost done...




everything together






 


the car should look 110% better with the bumpers on and the new grill being crazy shiny...
and the polishing so far was one of the only projects that went exactly as planned, took exactly as long as expected, and actually made an immediately noticeable difference 

i have to make a couple little angle brackets for the bottom edge of the grill, which is why the bumper isnt on yet, but ive got some more positive vibes now to tackle the last of the brake work so ill keep plugging away at that this week..



3-26-2012

enough shiny parts... time for some of the grimy bits!

really put this thing through its paces this weekend, and feels like money well spent now given how smooth its making this whole brake line making process! definitely wasnt cheap (and the cost per flare is pretty high ) but i dont regret it after having used it now.
also, the cunifer brake line material from fed hill is AMAZING... extremely easy to work with. highly recommended!




couple test pieces




heres the broken bit that started this madness - drivers rear suspension height control feed line







new guy, installed!






one of the new cross over lines for the rear brakes, next to the old one




both installed








were now down to just making a new passenger side rear height control feed line and were ready to go. that one is about to fail in the same manner as the one that broke, so i figured why not go ahead and replace it while doing the soft line for that circuit.

im amazed at how quickly this is all going, so im hoping to have this wrapped up in a few days. weve almost got the old pass side height control feed line out (all the damn rusted on line clamps are off, and the line is loose) it just needs to be wiggled out of the car.

then later this week id like to give everything a once over and see if we can get the damn thing to bleed (fingers crossed!)



3-28-2012

quick update, no pics, but we fired it up last night after getting the last hard and soft line in.


everything connected to the rear accumulator bled fine, we can get clean fluid through there - this is progress! - we now have 1/2 of the front brakes working, along with everything out back!


still has issues feeding fluid to the front accumulator though, same as before. noodling through that with the RROC guys at the moment, and we'll see what the next step is.
if it means pulling the pump then so be it, but im not totally convinced yet that thats the issue - pump doesnt make noise and i can feel the feed line pulsing like the pump is doing something... we'll see!


will have more info later


3-30-2012

looks like we're in for pulling the pumps. while ive got the upper intake off im going to find a cleaner looking used upper manifold to replace our pitted one, and of course reseal both pumps.


should be some pretty good carnage shots of the engine torn apart once this gets under way.

just ordered the rebuild bits and intake gaskets today along with the pump tool, so probably not starting until late next week when all the parts show up, and i can confirm our buddy in canada has a clean intake manifold for me to buy.


stay tuned!


4-4-2012

brake pump rebuild parts should be here shortly...
stay tuned for some torn-down pics from this weekend


4-12-2012

just popped the front brake pump off tonight and had a look around. looks like our front brake pump pushrod isnt moving. pulled a little bit and couldnt get it out, but waiting on RROC confirmation on the proper removal method - nothing in the shop manual on this topic. regardless it needs to come out for inspection/replacement.


pictures to come


4-13-2012

just confirmed via RROC that the front pushrod is stuck roughly in the full up position (~1/2" sticking up above the bottom of the pump cavity)... possibly explaining why nothing was making weird noises, as its likely that the cam lobe entirely misses the pushrod at this point.
the spring pressure on the pumps is really low, and is the only thing that forces the pushrod back down (aside from gravity) so it could have fused itself in there from sitting parked too long - there was some evidence of moisture underneath the pump so i think this is the theory ill go with for now...


for kicks heres the cutaway view of the whole mess from the workshop manual. cutaway is drawn with the pushrod in the fully down position.



plan for this weekend is to tear the upper intake manifold off in prep for arrival of the new one, and see what i can do about unsticking/removing the front pushrod. hoping to pick up a new intake manifold next week/weekend, and possibly another pushrod if this one ends up being ruined in the removal process.
will also refurb the pumps after the intake manifold is off.

should make for some nice pictures


4-15-2012

good news all around this weekend - push rod came out with some persuasion, nothing was damaged, and the intake manifold was a breeze to remove.


intake manifold off, just one bolt holding the whole thing down (once the fuel lines and couple hoses are unhooked). so far of all the things ive serviced on this car, this is probably the most well thought out system - easy to remove for service. was probably due for removal as the main gasket was in pretty sad shape.




shot of the corroded pushrod. we soaked the little chamber it sits in, in some penetrating fluid and eventually were able to hit it hard enough to knock it loose. bumped the starter and the cam was able to pop it back up, and out it came!






manifold/carbs... after a closer look i might try to get some new gaskets for a couple of the carb bits also... i have new stuff for the intake manifold




carbs broken loose




and this is why im replacing the upper intake




hoping to get my hands on some new parts this week and we should be in business by the weekend...
i still have to pull the rear pump while the intake is off, and service both pumps while theyre out, but those should be minor jobs this week.

4-17-2012

some more shots from tonight...
front brake pump is MIA because its soaking in penetrating oil






4-19-2012

just got back from canada with a whole bunch of parts...

looking like we have the early - non fusible link - brake pushrods and ive now got all the parts needed to convert over to the later style. another "while we're in there" thing... in the event that the rod ever seizes again, and not in the fully up position, we can prevent cam/engine damage.
completing the conversion means pulling the lower intake and valley cover, but should provide another good opportunity to peak into the motor and see how things are looking in there.
...also time for another order from Albers for gaskets when that intake comes off, and i just ordered more parts yesterday oh well
and i needed to do the thermostat anyway and this will be a good opportunity while the coolant is drained for that manifold removal


lots more pictures to come this weekend although mostly of tearing things down as ill be waiting on parts until mid next week at the earliest before things start coming together


4-21-2012

 


a few of the new parts from last week...

new choke housing, no melted parts!  




the new brake pump pushrod parts, spent some time cleaning everything today. 






and you can see the old (solid) versus new (fused) push rods 


 

spent some time cleaning the new stuff today... waiting on the second order of gaskets and orings before i pull the lower intake and swap the valley covers/push rod pedestals, but that should be pretty quick. i didnt want to leave the engine even more torn apart for the next week while i waited for parts.

having second thoughts also on painting the engine bits before reassembly... not sure how painting over the silver coating would work out for the intake horns. we'll see how im feeling later this week but at the moment thinking ill hold off.

anyway, should have more updates later next week when the parts start to show up


4-30-2012

should have a big pic update in a couple days, but weekend's progress was excellent.

got both valve cover gaskets swapped to the new style rubber setup, and in doing so discovered the A bank head had been off the car at some point relatively recently as it was really clean and it also already had the rubber valve cover gasket setup. B bank head probably had the original cork one, as it looked really old and was leaking like crazy... but its all been updated now, and you can actually read the RR on both sides of the motor now getting the B bank valve cover off was a pretty involved process (all told both sides took ~4 hours including cleaning and reassembly), so there should be some good pictures to check out of that...

also got the lower intake off the car yesterday afternoon, along with a few other associated parts, and will be cleaning/painting all of that over the next couple days. i managed to find engine paint to match the silver coating on the intake horns, so the whole motor should be looking really sharp soon. i decided not to paint the valve covers when i had them off just to preserve some patina, and they werent really in bad shape other than a few spots where the paint had been nicked off that should be easily covered up when the intake parts are bolted back on.

the valley cover on the block and surrounding area look pretty dirty, so whoever had the intake off to do the head before probably didnt bother lifting/resealing the valley cover as it looks like its been slowly leaking a bit of oil around the cover and getting everything greasy... so therell be some work in cleaning that all up. the factory used a silk thread to seal up the valley cover originally (and im sure thats whats still in ours...) and im sure they leaked as soon as the cars were cranked for the first time... thatll be getting redone with an actual seal when i bolt it all together this time.
also found that the thermostat was missing, rather than stuck open like i originally thought - the car would run normal-ish temps around town then get super cooled on the highway. ive got a new tstat assembly waiting to go in, so we'll see what happens there... it didnt seem to ever get hot before if the gauges are to be trusted... fingers crossed!

should have the rebuilt brake pumps back in the shop soon, and then its all ready for reassembly!

should be posting a lot of the pictures in a day or so..


5-1-2012

and... pictures!

the new looking head 





B bank valve cover before... 




and after... 




old gasket bits... 






oil filler neck bits... filled with some of that same goop from the oil pan 




getting ready to remount it, after the valve cover install 


 






masked up for paint... 




 


test shot of the intake horn paint.. 




looking like a total mess (with clean valve covers! )... for now. 





got the intake and tstat housing stuff painted today, as well a few of the base coats on the lower intake manifold. ill have pictures of that tomorrow.

planning to be all wrapped up with the painting tomorrow and make a dent in the cleaning and brake pump pedestal swap. also the refreshed brake pumps will be in tomorrow afternoon, so thatll make all the parts needed to get it all back together, which should hopefully be the motivation i need to wrap up the cleaning/painting and get everything prepped for reassembly tomorrow night


5-2-2012

 

i have more, just didnt have time to edit/post them last night.

reassembly starts this afternoon though.


popped the valley cover off of our block and all looks well, no cam damage or any issues from that seized pushrod.  
just need to do a little more cleaning, and rechecking the clearance on the new pushrod setup, and shes ready to go back together. all the paint is dry and looking good on the intake parts as well, so that should be exciting going back together


no history, and nothing mentioned by the guy we got it from. car has around 60k on it.
i tried (and i think i mentioned it in a post or two earlier in the thread) to get a hold of the primary owner's kids but with no luck. i was able to get in touch with the estate lawyer but none of the kids ever got back to me. i might pursue that again once it hits the road for real, and just pass on a few photos to the lawyer and see if he can pass those onto the kids... id just like to talk to someone for a few minutes and see where the car was serviced if nothing else! hah
i have mailing addresses, or rather PO boxes, for some of the previous owners so i might try the snail mail approach just for kicks as well...

someone knew what they were doing though as they put on the later style valve cover gasket parts, and the head had obviously been off the car as its spotless, in the ports as well as under the valve cover.
the B bank head looks about as used and oily as id expect though, and it had original looking gaskets.

this is pretty consistent with what ive seen through other parts of the car - that it was maintained at some point but has been sitting for a really long time as of late.


Continue to Part 2:

https://www.diyauto.com/manufacturers/mg/generations/14-28/builds/2-10